WikiIslam:Forum

New section

History of Jihad - New Pages

We have added ten new pages to History of Jihad as external links. You may want to host them on Wikiislam and add them to the TOC. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Historyofjihad (talk • contribs)

Islam and Judaism

Islam does not have much to envy to Judaism. In fact Islam and Judaism are almost a reflection of each other in every aspect, except that Islam fails (Shame on Muslims!!!) to recognize the Jews as the Chosen People of G-D. Other than that you will find that Islam and Judaism spread exactly the same noble ideals or evil notions (depending on which side of the telescope you are looking through.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ibrawa (talk • contribs)

Ibrawa, this website is not partial to Judaism or any other religion. The people behind this site (that includes Ali Sina) are not Jews. Even if they were, no one is here to preach Judaism, but to criticise Islam. If Judaism was the same as Islam Allah would forgive Jews and let them go to heaven, but according to Qur'an 48:13, they will burn in Hellfire. Also please sign your comments using the signature button in the toolbar. --Whale ^talk contribs 06:55, 9 June 2007 (PDT)

"This site is not partial to any other religion?" What rubbish: this isn't "NPOV" — this page is loaded with value judgements and propaganda against Islam. The people who are editing it are deluding themselves.

And excuse me, but Qur'an 48.13 does NOT condemn Jews to hellfire. In fact, it condemns those who do not believe in God. Since Jews (and Christians) do believe in God, and since elsewhere (5.113-115) they are spoken of clearly as believers and righteous people, the verse you misquote out of ignorance actually applies to those people who reject faith and wrong themselves and others. So, if you want to preach hate and contribute to fear, AT LEAST GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT! CD

48:13 talks about belief in Allah and his Messenger (Muhammad), not just God. --Whale 13:39, 10 November 2008 (PST)

So is it OK for Quran to condemn unbelievers rather than Jews? And then you say this is propaganda against Islam, while the verse you bring on is racist and bigoted against unbelievers! What irony that you have missed. Jews are condemned to death in Quran. --Haqir 22:49, 25 October 2011 (PDT)

I definitely feel that this website comes across as pro-Christian and pro-Judaism. Even more disturbing, this website is clearly pro-Israel. There is a lot of great information here, but if you're going to point out the evils of Islam, and then talk about terrorism, you can't go and support Israel and Judaism. Anyone that agrees that Islam is violent can't possibly defend Israel and its policies. Anyone that does is simply illinformed as to what takes place in and around Israel. 96.241.30.188 00:20, 26 October 2011 (PDT)

Hi anon! No, this website is not pro-Christian, pro-Judaism, or any other religion. We make this clear on our FAQ[1]. The only times we even mention other religions is when discussing them in relation to Islam (for example; the bigotry against Christians/Jews/Polytheists in the Qur'an, their dhimmi status, persecution etc.) or when refuting a tu-quoque argument/Islamic propaganda (for example; claiming Joseph was a pedophile so it excuses Muhammad's actions[2] or claiming Muhammad was predicted in Hindu scripture[3] and Zoroastrian scripture[4]). The fact that we have pages on the Bhavishya Purana and Dasatir-i-Asmani does not in any way make us pro-Hinduism, or pro-Zoroastrianism, because we are not endorsing any of these scripture as "truth" or "better" than the Qur'an. We are simply clarifying misconceptions which are spread by Muslims to endorse their religion.

And this site is not "pro-Israel". Our recently updated policies and guidelines makes this clear[5]. But like everything else, this site is always evolving, so there may be a few things which do not completely adhere to our rules (we mention this here[6]). We have updated, removed or deleted a whole host of articles which were unsuitable for this site for being pro-something or another (for example: an article named "Israel vs genocide"[7]). As time permits, eventually every page on the site will perfectly reflect our policies and guidelines. This is not a political wiki. We focus solely on Islam. Sure some editors may be pro-Israel, but it's not allowed to be reflected in our content. Speaking for myself, I can tell you that I am not pro-Israel, I am an avid supporter of multiculturalism who has been called a "Multi-Kulti Loon" on more than one occassion, and although I'm not a very politically-minded person, I'm very left-leaning. So any of the "rabid Zionist" "crazy Fundie" stereotypes people like to use against critics of Islam will not fly here. --Gabe 02:03, 26 October 2011 (PDT)

Need suggestions for essays written by Users

I've made this template {{essay}} which puts a box on a user's page if its an essay. I thought its a good idea to mark a certain page as an essay, especially when it has been largely written by a certain user. Here are a few examples:

• Al-Azhar fatwa on adult suckling
• Current Jihad Motivation
• Medicine and biology

I think the first thing a user questions when he sees an essay is, who wrote this? The user attribution solves this. Thats basically it. I'm also thinking of having a new section on the main page called Essays by users or should we call it Op-Eds? Suggestions are welcome. --Whale ^(talk/contribs) 21:29, 4 July 2007 (PDT)

Created Site map link

Following a discussion on the Deletions page, I've created a Site map link on the left navigational bar now as you can see. Its a good link to have there as its a universal/general kind of page that relates to the whole site. This page is able to give an overview of the whole site and list (all or most of the) the articles in addition to the ones on the main page. This can be a page where we can find any link that we're looking for, which is sometimes hard to do. There are many links which are hidden behind the Main page. Uncovering those links is the job of this page. Feel free to change it as you think will help you (and others) navigate the site better and more comprehensively. --Whale ^talk contribs 20:57, 26 June 2007 (PDT)

Main page?

I thought that was what the Talk:Main Page was for.--Wanderer 15:00, 26 June 2007 (PDT)

Actually the main page should be only for discussing content about the main page. I've moved some of the general content here. --Whale ^talk contribs 19:25, 26 June 2007 (PDT)

Quotes from Famous People

I propose the we change the title "Quotes from Famous People" to "Quotations on Islam". Or we can make "Quotes from Famous People" a subsection of "Quotations on Islam". The reason for this change would be to allow for quotes that have been said by obscure but important authors to be placed on this page. Selfworm 04:54, 7 September 2006 (CDT)

Hey Selfworm, thanks for contributing! "Quotations on Islam" seems much better and I agree with the rest of your changes too. I dont like the re-direct feature of wikipedia because it includes that little text which is better not seen sometimes ("redirected from"). Maybe its better to make a new page "Quotations on Islam" and start from there. What do you think? --Whale 09:33, 7 September 2006 (CDT)

"Maybe its better to make a new page "Quotations on Islam" and start from there. What do you think?" I agree with this approach. We can make "Quotes from Famous People" a subsection of this new page. Selfworm 11:14, 7 September 2006 (CDT)

Ok good, I made those changes then. Here's the new page: Quotations on Islam -a copy of the same page with just a different title. I see now its easier to rename, but it doesnt look as nice as deleting and recreating the page. --Whale 13:54, 7 September 2006 (CDT)

Just a suggestion

I have recently come across this wiki, and I have a few suggestions to make it more encyclopediac. I have noticed one good thing about the muslim wikipedia that you may be able to copy here. It is written like an encyclopedia. As I assume you are creating a wiki critical to Islam, you may want to create articles similar to those found on wikipedia but tailor them to fit in this wiki. By that, I mean you may want to create articles about Muhammad, the history of Islam, famous terrorist attacks, terrorists, etc.--Wanderer 00:19, 13 April 2007 (PDT)

Thanks for your input. MuslimWikipedia seems more like to me "Dubai's construction projects". It is also copying a lot of material from Wikipedia, e.g. [8] and [9] - these articles are very similiar. We could do the same but we want to focus on creating unique articles and features first. Otherwise the copying job would be an endless task. We've just started and have a lot to do. Right now we're just a handful of editors (i.e. the ones who are regular) and we work on our own chosen topics from time to time. We need help in creating articles about all the topics you mentioned and in time they will be created. For example, one of the next plans I have, is create a place where former Muslims can write their own testimonies and experiences with Islam. Right now, we have some very unique pages that are not found on the internet anywhere: Quotations on Islam, Audio on Islam, Rebuttals to Zakir Naik, Farsideology, List Islam, Hundreds of Questions to Ask a Muslim, Quotations from the Quran and the Hadith, Islam in Numbers and many others. With time, we'll have more and more unique features and articles.--Whale 06:35, 13 April 2007 (PDT)

I was looking at the articles [10] and [11]. It seems that the wikipedia took its article from the muslim wiki. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fred (talk • contribs)

Its probably the other way around. --Whale ^talk contribs 04:54, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

You might also want to create articles about famous former muslims.--Wanderer 20:02, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

Thanks for the suggestion, yes those will also come in time. Thanks for your work on Muhammed to get that article out of stub status. --Whale ^talk contribs 07:49, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Terrific job guys -- keep up the good work. Do you have a donate button? Haqir

Welcome Haqir and thanks! Yes we do. You can find it here --Gabe 00:12, 26 October 2011 (PDT)

Made News link template

I made this template which now also shows the location of the news event and the date it occured (2 important aspects of a news event): Template:Newslink. Any comments? Hopefully it doesnt look like an overkill. --Whale ^talk contribs 07:40, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

I think it might be a good idea to have the name of the country instead, because the primary purpose is to know which country this event happened in. It takes some time for the brain to process that information from the flag, but not from the text so I'll change this to text.--Whale ^talk contribs 14:16, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

New stuff

I suggest we create a page for new article, template, etc. proposals.--Wanderer 20:22, 8 July 2007 (PDT)

WikiIslam in other Language ?

does exists WikiIslam in other Language too ? I'am a Turk from Germany and I want to read articles in German or Turkish. Greeting, Shame-Ulullah

Only english for now. --Whale 19:03, 29 April 2009 (PDT)

Have you thought about contacting Dutch blogs, forums and websites and asking them if they want to create a Dutch wikilslam? Most Dutch people are good at English, so communication would be excellent and there are plenty of people who care about exposing the truth about Islam to the Netherlands and Belgium. M.vd 23:44, 28 September 2009 (PDT)

Hi M.vd, I havent, this is more than enough to make us busy and they're probably also busy, the dutch people. In netherlands, the Muslim population in 1 million (from wikipedia) and 700,000 in Belgium. Our priorities for multi-language would first be the big muslim countries and languages: Indonesia, Pakistan and Bangladesh (and in arabic) to start with. I had a change to start a wiki in Indonesian but I havent had time to look into it. --Whale 04:33, 29 September 2009 (PDT)

Wouldn't it be more of a question of finding enough Dutch people to write the wiki? A Dutch site would only require server space and a little administrative push from the people at the English WikiIslam. Besides that Dutch is an important language in a part of the Muslim world, in Indonesia many educated people still learn Dutch when they study jurisprudence or other subjects at the local universities. M.vd 07:00, 29 September 2009 (PDT)

Having an extra language does increase the administrative load for me as well (maintaining the software and everything) so it has to be justified and so, more popular languages have to done first ([12]: arabic, bengali, indonesian, farsi and urdu [Muslim languages ordered by population or speakers]). The total number of Dutch speakers is just 27 million ([13]), and only a few of them are Muslims. Our goal is to reach Muslims around the world first. Most dutch people I assume already have unfavorable views of Islam. Are you a site admin? You could translate a few important articles and that would good enough for now you will have done your part, trust me. --Whale 07:15, 29 September 2009 (PDT)

Maybe i should try to get many Dutch people together, so that we could write our own wiki. Translating articles might be a good idea. M.vd 22:31, 29 September 2009 (PDT)

I would really suggest that you spend the same time you plan on spending in finding someone in the Muslim languages I have mentioned above in italics because if its not any of those, I dont feel its important enough right now and I wont be able to spend any time on it. 1.6 million dutch speaking Muslims are a lot less important than 250 million arabic speaking muslims and so on. The rest of the dutch people are already aware of Islam. Its best to make sure your own time too is being utilized in something that would have more effect. I would suggest translate those few articles and put them on a static website and not a wiki for now. Do that and find a group of arabic or bengali or indonesian people and I'll help them out to have a sub-language here. --Whale 05:03, 30 September 2009 (PDT)

Hello whale and M.vd, I would also contribute in German and help translating, when the time comes. Azgyl 18:24, 24 January 2010 (PST)

Ok thanks. --Whale 08:01, 25 January 2010 (PST)

Sorry to barge in this way, I'm not quite sure if I'm allowed to, I'm still new on Wikiislam. Just thinking that I can offer French which we definitely will need as some point as it's spoken on 3 continents. I'm completely bilingual in English/French.I'm a profewikiislam ssional translator into and from these 2 languages. I'm also a writer and a former English teacher. As far as Arabic is concerned, have you found people to help you out? I can ask some Arabic Christian friends who speak pretty good English. Kind regards--Emma 12:41, 7 October 2009 (PDT)

Hi Emma, welcome! Thats great that you're a professional translator, we're in luck. We could have a few chosen pages translated into french, say 5 or 10 and I wouldnt install a french wiki for now. I still want to reserve that effort for a major Muslim language for now. And that translation can be used later if we later decide to do a french wiki. What do you think? Now we just have to decide what those few pages should be that have to be translated. That I dont know, I guess we could pick out some real "shocking" pages. I can give you that list and maybe others can add in stuff too whatever they think is important.

No I havent asked any arabic people if anyone wants to runs an arabic wiki. But if they really want to get an arabic wiki started, I can do that yes as its a muslim language and it would be great to have an arabic wiki. Let me know if they want to do it. I can help with software and setup but they'll have to be ready to make a commitment of maintaining it. --Whale 19:13, 7 October 2009 (PDT)

Reference: List of countries by number of Internet users

plz add other languages. plz. and have them as sub domain folders e.g

for dutch www.da.wikiislam.com

english

www.en.wikiislam.com

it makes the site look more professional also--Bench 16:10, 4 June 2010 (PDT)

isnt htis site banned in muslin coutnries

Please Include "Hindi" in the list of Popular languages that Muslims Speak and Read. Since Hindi is the National Language of India and every person in India, Learns Hindi as a Second Language.

No, read all the discussion above. --Whale 04:48, 12 January 2011 (PST)

Hi! I speak and write English, French, and standard Arabic (as well as other variants) at pretty much the same level. So I could provide translations of some articles into French or Arabic, if you want. But I'm too busy to maintain a site, though I can ask some of my non religious friends in the Arab speaking world to help with that. Kind regards, Theophagous

Hi Theophagous, and welcome to WikiIslam! That sounds great, thank you. You can find the list of articles we are looking to have translated here. I will leave our welcome message, which contains some useful links, on you talk-page. If you have any further questions, I or another administrator will be more than happy to answer them for you, so do not hesitate to ask. --Gabe 05:51, 21 August 2011 (PDT)

There is no god but God, and Muhammad is His prophet

("There is no god but God, and Muhammad is His prophet.")

This text that i wrote is my opinion about this website and I would like from the visitors, admin. of the web and everyone else interested to read it as much as I read this so called "wikiislam" page which has nothing to do neither with encyclopedia nor Islam that much I’m close Muslims and their religion which you guys obviously are trying to offend.

So what I’m saying is why don’t you guys try to "get a life" by saying ("There is no god but God, and Muhammad is His prophet.")

Or realize the fact that only by trying to offend or saying lies about Islam you are actually supporting it because the smart people, people who are using their brains will realize what are you actually doing and acts like this were mentioned in Kuran for about 1500 years ago so have a nice “trip” guys and try my advice get a life.

I tried saying "There is no god but God, and Muhammad is His prophet" many times but I noticed it had no more effect on me than saying "There are no Cheese crackers on the Moon and Dust and Stone is all thats there". The latter statement is a scientific fact so I feel better when I say that. Try it yourself sometimes. In seriousness though, the aim of the site is not to be offensive but to look at Islam critically. If that results in some people not liking the content, we apologize. If you think any article is not inaccurate, feel free to discuss it on the article's talk page. --Whale 10:27, 18 June 2009 (PDT)

Get with the program man - what the hell does "There's no god but God" mean anyway? To me, it means that you have misunderstood that ALLAH is the NAME of the Islamic deity. Sure it USED to mean that Allah was now al ilah (the god) instead of one of the 365 pagan idols, but taking a quick look at the start of most Surah's will show you "in the NAME of Allah....." and the shahada you put there is the stupidest thing I've seen today. "There's no god but god" What a LAUGH. "There's no god but ALLAH...." makes infinitely more sense. You know why? Because you're actually identifying the <chosen deity> you believe to be god. So, before telling us about Islam, perhaps you should do yourself a favour and learn about it before boldly proclaiming your indoctrination to be 'the truth!'

Yes yes, we get it. We've 'strengthened your faith.' Uh huh. You know how many times a day we've heard that? Whale, we should start up a loterry or something.... Why don't you go discuss your religion with an Arab and they can tell you the real meaning of your favourite Quran ayahs. I know you're not an Arab because of the way you spelt "Quran." Nothing could have been 'mentioned in the Quran 1500 years ago" because the Quran is not that old (~1450) if the text and Islamic timeline are to be believed.

Alright I'm done. Sanitarium 01:21, 19 June 2009 (PDT)

Wait, no I'm not. What's this "have a nice trip" crapola? Firstly, I don't believe in an afterlife, but even if I did, I can see the Quran verses where Allah admits he is the BEST deceiver, so that and other details about Islam let me know that Islam is NOT true. Therefore I am not, and neither are you, in danger of Islam's version of "hell." Secondly, that was a lame threat. You wanna see the best "you'll burn in hell" threat I got? Here it is!. The tune's quite catchy don't you think?

Alright, now I'm done. Sanitarium 02:03, 19 June 2009 (PDT)

Article Suggestions

Do we have anything specific on "Honor Killings" or "Cults"? I'd like to see an article that proves Islam is a cult based on widely-accepted descriptions.--Natassia 15:18, 16 September 2009 (PDT)

I see you added something about the cult (Is Islam a cult?) but Honor related violence is on the to-do list. I thought we can 'violence' because sometimes its not killing but other violence (if they survive or some other attack). --Whale 06:49, 17 September 2009 (PDT)

Do we have anything on the Muslim Brotherhood? How about Rifqa Bary?--Natassia 20:00, 9 October 2009 (PDT)

Nope, nothing on either. --Whale 20:21, 9 October 2009 (PDT)

Link

Can someone give this link a good home? Islam-Watch.org:sexual-slavery-and-concubinage-in-islam

Done. --Whale 08:50, 28 November 2009 (PST)

Help

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justification_of_Terrorism_in_Islam

Some muslims i think are trying to Delete this article. because it shows what islam really teaches

Please help me.

go here, which is a the place to discuss wether the article should be deleted or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Justification_of_Terrorism_in_Islam

and write keep in the discussion. So it doesnt get deleted.

Also pelase dont act islamphobic over there. Because you know wikipedia sucks up to Islam/ and if you cant islamaphobic it will be deleted. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.18.223.124 (talk • contribs)

There's no such thing as Islamophobia, but I know what you mean. The problem is that there are active dawa teams over on WikiPedia - at least two that I know of; the Sunni side and the Shia side. Their main purpose is to keep the wiki articles over there presenting Islam in the best possible light. Of course the minor goal of each team is to present themselves as the "right sect" and the others as "wrong"; so at any given time, depending on who edited last (Sunni/Shia) then the Sunni's are the minority who are going to burn in hell, or vice versa. So I understand the problem you are having; and that is the REASON why WikiIslamn was created in the first place, due to frustration of editors because legitimate content would keep getting removed because of these teams and also the dhimmi ignoramuses.

But hey, thanks for calling us "islamophobes" - really appreciated (NOT). Sanitarium 20:27, 14 November 2009 (PST)

Different issue, but I don't know where to post this... Just a suggestion for the creator of http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Setting_the_Record_Straight:_The_Non-Miracle_of_Islamic_Science: If you intend that the material in white below the blue boxes be what is "fact" or what is meant to "balance out" the views in the blue boxes, it would be very helpful to reverse the two - ie, to put the material you want to replace the other in the blue box so it is emphasized. Especially since one of the items in the blue box has the caption "what should be taught" but apparently you really want to say what occurs below it outside the box should at least also be taught...? ~Kathy

Hi, Kathy. Everything within the blue quote boxes from the article "Setting the Record Straight: The Non-Miracle of Islamic Science" (found here) are quotes from "Setting the Record Straight: The Miracle of Islamic Science" (found here). The article which it is replying to.

We're trying to keep the formatting consistent throughout the wiki, so you will see the same thing in "How Islamic Inventors Did Not Change The World"[14] and others. --Gabe 09:38, 22 April 2011 (PDT)

new stuff

how about an article with all the differenes in islam such as different tafsirs different translations different quran copies different denominations can you start a new article or page or something?Osmanhassan 05:48, 24 March 2010 (PDT)

also, maybe you could start an article on the 'author of the Quran' since answering-islam has some good stuff on that - i could help out if you wantOsmanhassan 05:54, 24 March 2010 (PDT)

New page can be started by going on the help page [15]. --Whale 06:53, 24 March 2010 (PDT)

Something that might should be covered

I think that some critical analysis of the claims made here should be made in to an article here. Not a lot has been said about it, buy maybe some technical non biased research can debunk (or prove) the claims made.

Supposed numerical code that proves supernatural influence.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread545618/pg1

No, see 19. --Whale 05:11, 27 March 2010 (PDT)

Oh, good. Does disproving the "19" thing also do away with the supposed numerical miracles in the amount of times "Land", "sea" "man", "Woman" and such? The entire thread might be based on the 19 thing. I bet a lot of it is very twisted around to make it fit, and this sort of thing could be done to other books if people spent the same amount of time on it. I hope that somebody does a really in depth refutation some day

No, the land/sea stuff has to be dealt with seperately. This is just for the 19 which forms part of what the link is about, but it shows these are all deceptions. --Whale 15:40, 27 March 2010 (PDT)

There is another claim that I think needs a page, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Haman_%28Islam%29 I have heard this mentioned a whole lot by muslim sources as a proof, but when I searched this site for "Haman" I couldn't find anything on it. Here is page that is giving the opposing view of their claims http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/katz/haman.html , So this debate seems like it deserves a page.

We dont have time and are busy. Please do it yourself if you want a page on that. Make a page here. --Whale 04:47, 1 April 2010 (PDT)

Question about Koran Translations online

I hope this is the right place to pose a question.

I have decided to devote some time every day to reading the koran hadith et all.

1 I have read here that many translations have been whitewashed. Is there an accurate translation online I can access?

2 I have found a site that seems good (it is by and for muslims and has mulitple translations by Ahmed Raza Khan (Mohammed Aqib Qadri), Yusuf Ali and Pickthal. These translations of each line are presented side by side. There is another site with a translation by H M Shakir

But before I devote time to reading from these sites-

a) It is said that the Koran is arranged in "order" from largest chapter to shortest. But on the site I found that isn't a smooth shift from most verses to least verses. This is what I mean: Chap 5 120 verses chap 6 165 verses chap 7 206 verses chap 8 75 verses chap 9 129 verses chap 10 109 verses

And so on. What I Really need to know is- Are there verses being intenionally left out in these translations? Or is it amount of words per chapter only, not number of verses that determines the length?

This page is for issues about anything on WikiIslam, not general Islam stuff. This is the right place ,the FFI forum -> [16]. --Whale 15:46, 11 January 2011 (PST)

Naming convention for Translating Jihad

This is a place for us to discuss the Naming convention of the Translating Jihad articles.

Just a suggestion: I would like the titles to be more objective and news like/nuetral (so its more like we're only the reporters). I have no ideas right now. I sent an email to al-mutarjm about this post. Maybe I'll have some ideas tomorrow. --Whale 20:24, 26 January 2011 (PST)

I was thinking we could do a section for fatwas, and then another for Arabic press articles. I think pretty much everything will fall into one of those two categories. Now from there we can either further break it down by date, or by topic. I don't think I like using the date, because for one, it's confusing--do we use the date I translated the piece, or the date the piece was written. So it might be better to make sections based on topic. We could keep it pretty broad, like, "Apostasy from Islam," "Blasphemy," "Jihad," etc. Each article could just be named "Publication: Title of Article," and each fatwa could be named "Issuer of Fatwa: Fatwa Question." How does that sound?--Almutarjim 03:52, 27 January 2011 (PST)

I really have little else to add at this point. I agree with everything Almutarjim has suggested. It is both simple and neutral. I think the title format should follow our other pages, so its "Title of Article (Publication)" and "Fatwa Question (Issuer of Fatwa)", but that's here nor there. --Gabe 04:11, 27 January 2011 (PST)

Gabe, sounds like a good idea, I agree.

AM, so you'd enter that title in the help link I gave you (present on the left side bar too as 'Help'). Enter and format the text using the toolbar and hit Save. Ask any questions you have, we'll help you out. You'll need bold, italics, quotes links. You could just paste what you have and we can format this first one to show you the basics (its easy). --Whale 05:50, 27 January 2011 (PST)

AL, Ok. I made a test post for you based on your original: Fatwa: "Whoever Insults One of These Four Things, Whether in Jest or Sincerity, Has Become an Infidel and Must Be Killed". Its just a copy. I just sent Gabe an email saying that it might be better to keep your naming convention and keep things as you've been doing because: it looks like how news sources create their headings too. In this case we're a news source - we're reporting things. If you have a heading we think could be changed, we'll change it later. You can click "edit" on that article and see how its done.

The reason why 1. "Fatwa Question (Issuer of Fatwa)" is not better than what he already has: 2. Fatwa: "Can I play Dominoes?" is that #2 tells us right away that its a Fatwa. Thats what most people want to know. As to who the issuer of the Fatwa is, thats not as important. For our purposes as long as its a fatwa its all that matters. We want to know its a Fatwa and what its about. Plus the headline reads like a regular headline that we see in actual news websites, so, thats good/important for us. I dont know what else we can do at this point.

Maybe there should be a link on each page to Al's about page which we can also put here. Later on we can have links to related fatwas as the bottom. I dont know what kind of index page we want to make for linking and keeping the articles together. Instead of Translating Jihad, I'd like to use something else. It should have the word Translating in it. What it should only say is something like "Translating stuff from the Muslim world". I dont know how to simplify that. The reason is that people will see the word Jihad and some will instantly put on their "Islam is not violent, you are right wing" hat. If we keep it objective and nuetral, that will keep those issues away. OR if you dont have any better suggestions, we just keep it like it is: Translating Jihad, whatever you guys want to do.

I always think how we should show things so that the liberal or a Muslim puts on that hat as slowly as possible because, thats who we're trying to target. Everyone else is already on our side. The more objective/nuetral we look, the more likely and widely our message will be heard.

AL, this is also true for some of your commentary on the articles. For example in the page I made, your commentary is: - No, the four things are not the four Gospels, and the author of this fatwa is not a right-wing Evangelical minister. The four things, of course, are Allah, Muhammad, the Qur'an, and Islam, and this is yet another offering from the Religion of Peace and Tolerance (shocker!). The author of this fatwa, which comes from the Islamic Fatwa Council of Jerusalem, presided over by Shaykh Khalid Ghanayim, asserts that this is not only his opinion, but also the opinion of the Qur'an, the sunnah, and the consensus of Islamic scholars, and backs all of that up with references from each source. Stay tuned for more from me on this topic in the coming days, as I have quite a bit of material to translate in relation to this.

Instead if we just take the first few sentences out, it looks better. Always think of how a nuetral news source would report something like this. You'll never see this kind of stuff on MEMRI, for example (there's a reason why MEMRI is respected more by everyone). So if we have:

- The four things are Allah, Muhammad, the Qur'an, and Islam. The author of this fatwa, which comes from the Islamic Fatwa Council of Jerusalem, presided over by Shaykh Khalid Ghanayim, asserts that this is not only his opinion, but also the opinion of the Qur'an, the sunnah, and the consensus of Islamic scholars, and backs all of that up with references from each source.

So now it looks more like a reporting news source. We leave the opinions out to the reader, they'll make those themselves. --Whale 18:18, 29 January 2011 (PST)

About the commentary; I think that's a good way to go and hopefully it's not going to be too much extra work for Almutarjim because it is the same commentary just stripped down to the bare essentials.

About the title; (just off the top of my head) how about something like "Translating Islam"? --Gabe 18:32, 29 January 2011 (PST)

I cant think of anything better. I guess we can do with the original, translating Jihad. How about "Translations from the Muslim World" (since its fatwas, news sources, opinions), or "Translations from Muslim Media". Translating Jihad may not be accurate because, its not always about Jihad. Sometimes its pedophilia, etc. --Whale 19:36, 29 January 2011 (PST)

I guess it doesnt matter much. How about "Insights into the Muslim World". Translating Islam is fine but this is the Muslim world so its more specific. Islam is very broad. We want to make it clear these are translations from the current Muslim world. Muslim World shows what its all about: the news sources, fatwas and so on. --Whale 20:42, 29 January 2011 (PST)

Cool. Since it's Arabic that is being translated I suppose most of it will fall under the banner of of the Middle East, so how about "Translating Middle Eastern Media"?

Its just a suggestion and may not be great, but I do think whatever title we choose needs to be "catchy" and roll off the tongue. --Gabe 06:43, 30 January 2011 (PST)

Sorry, I'm really late to this discussion. How about for a title, "Translations of Arabic/Islamic Media"? I think that pretty well captures what this is. I think "Translations of Islamic/Muslim Media" is confusing, because Islam is not a language, so readers may not understand what it's supposed to be. But since we're dealing with Islam here, I think both 'Islam' and 'Arabic' should make it into the title somewhere. You could also go with the original title of my blog followed by a subtitle: "Translating Jihad: English Translations of Arabic Media and Fatwas"; but that might be a little long. -- Al Mutarjim 14:58, 4 February 2011 (CST)

Sounds good to me: "Translations of Arabic/Islamic Media". For "middle eastern", sometimes its from other places so yea, Arabic/Islamic should cover it. --Whale 18:21, 4 February 2011 (PST)

IRC?

Have you considered opening a chat room like #wikiislam on irc.freenode.net where dialogue can occur between skeptics and Muslims in chat? --Sonja 20:59, 28 January 2011 (PST)

That would be nice but there's only a few of us regular editors here and we dont have the time to chat or moderate chat. People are asked to go to forums on other websites. --Whale 21:05, 28 January 2011 (PST)

Organisation of "Translations of Arabic/Islamic Media"

I've completed the import of all the posts suitable for the wiki,[17] so now we just need to decide on how to organise the whole section, its layout, etc.

ATM the main page is "Translations of Arabic/Islamic Media", and the two dividing sections on the top menu are "Translations of Arabic/Islamic Media: Fatwas" and "Translations of Arabic/Islamic Media: Press".

If there will be a section on the main page for the latest stuff that Al Mutarjim translates, then we could include that template in the "Translations of Arabic/Islamic Media" main page (similar to how the "New articles" page is found within the "Site news" page),[18] and under that we could have a heading for "Fatwas" listing a few, then a "see more" tab leading to the main fatwa page etc.

What are your thoughts/ideas on this? --Gabe 11:13, 5 February 2011 (PST)

Press and Fatwas, and everything else, looks good to me. I left an email for Al to check this section. --Whale 14:10, 5 February 2011 (PST)

Cool. Here's the main page so far: [19]. --Gabe 04:57, 6 February 2011 (PST)

After seeing the main page, I was thinking we could link "Translations of Arabic/Islamic Media" in our regular way, under "Miscellaneous" and then link new translations on our "New articles" list. This will keep the front page of the wiki from becoming too cluttered and confusing. --Gabe 05:33, 6 February 2011 (PST)

Thats a great idea. Yea, thats the best thing to do. --Whale 06:11, 6 February 2011 (PST)

Thanks. Its done now. Also added a "Miscellaneous" page for things that do not fit into either.[20] --Gabe 07:03, 6 February 2011 (PST)

Hospitals

First of all I was thrilled to discover your site - a site revealing the truth about Islam but with no emotionalism, just facts. I have a few questions/suggestions and after much perusal decided this was the most accurate place to comment: 1 - ARTICLE ON HOSPITALS? Some time ago I was extremely disheartened to find several Wikipedia articles purporting that Islam invented the HOSPITAL however I understand that actually they co-opted the credit from conquered Christians. I searched your site and I don't see an article showing that Muslims did not invent hospitals, though you have a great page showing all the other stuff they didn't invent. Is there a plan to create a page refuting the Wikipedia page crediting them with hospitals? 2 - In the probable event that my desire to assist with your site will not find time in my already-packed schedule, is there any less-time-consuming ways I may help increase traffic/interest/impact of this site - any suggestions for those of us wishing to help but having extremely limited time? THANK YOU for this masterful website and keep up the good work. ~ Kathy (ProtectLiberty)

"no emotionalism, just facts" - thanks, that is our only mission and we hope to stay that way. Its extremely important for improving and maintaining our credibility and reputation.

The article on hospitals on wikipedia, could you quote the relevant parts? Its highly unlikely they invented hospitals. We all know that most certainly human beings had "health centers" long before 1400 years ago. I bet the claim they make is without any source or counter source.

Like you we're also time limited and have a long 'to do' list. So currently there's no plan to write that article but we can look at it. Thanks for your offer to help, I'm not sure if you can do anything for us since you're also busy but yea, just keep spreading the word if you can, etc. --Whale 18:20, 17 April 2011 (PDT)

Hi, Kathy. I assume you're referring to "How Islamic Inventors Did Not Change The World"[21]. We do have other articles on Golden Age science. This one[22] "Islam, Science and the Problems at Wikipedia" explains how all these false claims have made their way into Wikipedia, and this one[23] "Setting the Record Straight: The Non-Miracle of Islamic Science" covers, among other things, the claim that Muslims invented hostpitals. It's refuted using Islamic sources, so there can be no accusation of bias. Here is the relevant portion:

What is Taught: Medical treatment for the insane was modernized by Philippe Pinel when in 1793 he operated France's first insane asylum.

What Should be Taught: As early as the 1lth century, Islamic hospitals maintained special wards for the insane. They treated them kindly and presumed their disease was real at a time when the insane were routinely burned alive in Europe as witches and sorcerers. A curative approach was taken for mental illness and, for the first time in history, the mentally ill were treated with supportive care, drugs and psychotherapy. Every major Islamic city maintained an insane asylum where patients were treated at no charge. In fact, the Islamic system for the treatment of the insane excels in comparison to the current model, as it was more humane and was highly effective as well.

There is evidence that the institution of the hospital, including the wards for the insane, was inherited by the Muslims from both the Persians and the Byzantines. Already before the rise of Islam, the hospital at Jundhapur, near the present Persian city of Ahvaz, was a major medical institution which, in addition to the care of patients, medical instruction was carried out on an extensive basis. There were also hospitals established by Byzantines in their eastern provinces such as Syria which became rapidly integrated into the Islamic world.

The hospital was first introduced into Islamic societies in the reign of the sixth Ummayid caliph, Al-Walid Bin Abdul-Malik (705 - 715 AD) in Jundishapur, a Persian city in the province of Ahwaz.

The early Islamic hospital, the bimaristan, was "an institution built by Muslim caliphs, sultans and kings and by benevolent persons in general, as an act of charity, such as mosques and hospices. Its function was not restricted to the treatment of the ill; it also served as a place for instruction in the sciences and medicine from which students would graduate much as they do from our modern medical schools today." The term “maristan” is a later abbreviation of the original Persian, bimaristan, meaning "house of the ill."

The commonly held view which prevails to this day was that the bimaristan was an asylum for the insane. This misconception derives from the abbreviation of one of the institution's functions. "Bimaristans were public hospitals for the treatment of all illnesses, whether those requiring surgery or medication, whether physical or mental. With the passage of time, however, these institutions fell into disrepair and were abandoned by all their patients with the exception of the mentally ill. As a result, in recent times the term, if used at all, refers only to a madhouse."

Hi Whale, I went looking for the Wikipedia entries I recall, and here is what I found:

Islam is credited with the first organized system of hospitals - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital see "history-Medieval Islamic world."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam - "Public hospitals established during this time (called Bimaristan hospitals), are considered "the first hospitals" in the modern sense of the word[106] and issued the first medical diplomas to license doctors of medicine.[107][108] The Guinness Book of World Records recognizes the University of Al Karaouine as the oldest degree-granting university in the world with its founding in 859 CE.[109] The origins of the doctorate also dates back to the ijazat attadris wa 'l-ifttd ("license to teach and issue legal opinions") in madrasahs which taught law.[110] The first establishments for taking care of the mentally ill were also created in the Muslim world.[111] During this time, standards of experimental and quantification techniques were introduced to the scientific process to distinguish between competing theories as well as the tradition of citation.[112][113] Ibn Al-Haytham is regarded as the father of the modern scientific method and often referred to as the "world’s first true scientist."[114] Legal institutions introduced in Islamic law include the trust and charitable trust (Waqf).[115][116]

This also must certainly be false, on the same page: "The spread of the Islamic dominion induced hostility among medieval ecclesiastical Christian authors who saw Islam as an adversary in the light of the large numbers of new Muslim converts. This opposition resulted in polemical treatises which depicted Islam as the religion of the antichrist and of Muslims as libidinous and subhuman.[104] - This statement almost makes me laugh! The pro-islamic author sounds like a 5-year-old crybaby. Anyway, the fact should be stated - that, as I understand it, Christians were being converted by FORCE and cruelly oppressed and therefore had every reason to view their islamic oppressors as enemies.

I am interested in making corrections to the Wikipedia Islam page but request material from your research and permission to use your studies (with full reference links of course!) as I don't have time to go do much research of my own.

thanks K

Hi Kathy, use any reference you like. We're glad that any of what we have can be used on Wikipedia. Gabe gave a great detailed reply that answered your questions in a better way. So yea, use what you want to. You probably already know you might have a hard time in getting some things in there. Its a constant battle there. Delete any unsourced stuff there or anything with dubious sources. Gabe gave a link to an editor who did a lot of false Islamic propaganda and he was sanctioned for it (after 60,000 edits already done or so). It could be stuff that he had put in. --Whale 14:57, 19 April 2011 (PDT)

Hi Whale and Gabe, Well I just edited Wikipedia's "Hospital" page after a day and a half of research (get mad enough and time materializes!)Thanks for inspiring me! See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital#Medieval_Islamic_world I added almost all the content that now appears under "Roman Empire" and made major additions (and some deletions) to the "Medieval Islamic world" section. To make an entire new page on Wikiislam showing that Islam did NOT contribute significantly to medical care would take more research but knowing how many people visit Wikipedia, I had to at least get that existing hospital page balanced out. Hope to correct Wikipedia's "Islam" page next which appears to completely sidestep the issue of violence, jihad and Mohammed's incestuous relationships. K

a bit disoriented...

First of all CONGRATULATIONS for this outstanding site! I discovered it recently and immediately opened an account although I cannot contribute much (you know, busy people undertake too many things, and I sleep only 3 or 4 hours a day). I am still discovering what you've done, I think I could write sth on who built the Ka'aba (Seth, Adam, Allah, Abraham,etc) and the Saudis are not even mentioned for their future work! may be one day this year? any other suggestion?

I am a bit disoriented by: 1) being a wikipedian there when we are greeted welcome the post appears on the talk page, so I didn't pay too much attention to what I was sent being convinced that I'll be able to read it later on and thank the sender, but my talk page is still empty, could you correct that please?

2) I noticed that for some contributor's page not everything is available e.g. List of contributions, does that mean that that contributor is not active?

Other languages: this site must be spread other the whole planet (and beyond?), the frontline is in the West where they convert and present the smiling face to the unsuspecting public. In the West people are educated and read much more than in the Moslem countries. While there they are reaching the adequate level of education and opening their minds to inquisitive thinking here we can halt the tide. I will publish a site in French, with different translations (is Emma gone for good?), and hopefully in Spanish too... (German is less urgent since they read English) still time is short

Do you need some help to maintain other languages? I have an idea about where to find them.

and last: today I clicked the link you give for Nonie Darwish  :http://formermuslimsunited.americancommunityexchange.org/

and thats what I got:

You don't have permission to access / on this server because you are currently blacklisted by a DNSBL server at: psbl.surriel.com.

OK maybe s.o. is after me (unlikely, I am an unknown nobody) but more probably Nonie's ennemies are censoring her site don't you think? could you let her know please and send her my regards, thanks.

I have decided that the XXIst century will be the last one for Islam, at first I thought I was a lonely daring being facing 1,3 billion brainwashed and captive souls but thanks to the internet I found out that many people had like me uncovered the true nature of Islam (Islam is the ennemy, some Moslems too, not all of them, it is really bad that the political talking heads are so politically correct that they can't say that much, well survival is their best skill). Indeed I forward the link to this very useful site to friends, good job! cheers, Keren 14:35, 4 May 2011 (PDT)

Hi Karen, thats a great idea to write an article about who built the Kaba, or its history. There you go, I used our common welcome template. Hopefully you'll write a few articles now, lol. Jk. I know what you mean. But I hope you have an idea of what type of articles we have. We try to keep everything sources, or the most important things sources. We stay with facts and keep away from opinions.

>> 2) I noticed that for some contributor's page not everything is available e.g. List of contributions, does that mean that that contributor is not active?

For some pages the entire history is not available before 2007. When we changed servers we had to reduce our database size and that meant getting rid of the page history and versions and keeping only the current version of the page. Yes other languages are good but we're already busy with what we have. I also think importance should be paid first to languages that are more used in the Muslim world. German and Spanish are not as important as say, Arabic, Indonesia and Urdu and so on (Muslim majority countries). Our opinions about Islam are already known to non-Muslims so Muslim languages are more important. But again, we dont have time to maintain a site in another language. We need more than just one person, because its a lot of work. So this site is good for now. The permission error you got on that site, not sure what thats about. It works for me. You can email them about this error: "info@formermuslimsunited.org". --Whale 21:20, 4 May 2011 (PDT)

Yes, I noticed the neutral tone and the sources oriented facts that's one of the characteristics that attracted me (despite their huge importance in denouncing Islam's threat to the world so many sites are written on the 'how much better Christianity is' tune).

Other languages: You have no idea of the lack of awareness among the human crowds about anything and specially about religion, their (supposed) own and indeed about others' if you have the opportunity -and the knowledge- test around you; once upon a time I did speak a bit of Indonesian (my best friend then was a Christian Balinese and she married a Javanese Muslim) this is an amazingly simple language which should have been the lingua franca rather than English (for the time being) and I always thought I would give it a more serious go, I'll try to contact people overthere and suggest them to translate articles (I am not really optimistic) basically Malay and Indonesian are the same language in different scripts and are understood all over South East Asia.

Spanish: the Islamists are making successful inroads in South America and anyway I know no Urdu or Pashtu at all... my written Arabic is appaling but I'll speak around to see if someone reliable would volunteer, indeed reliability is the crux of the matter, I'm sure you are aware that most of the so called Arabic speaking people can't read Modern Standard Arabic (they actually speak a specific dialect so much so that in Sudan for example where there are more than 200 of them they can't communicate well). I also want to offer something in Hebrew, the Israelis are likely to be the last nation to fight Islam actively but at least they must know why they should (sure who needs one more pretext to be targeted? I live in downtown Jerusalem). Part of the task at hand is enlisting other busy people (the non busy ones won't be enticed to change nature any time I know) at least I hope they will be interested by the quality of this site and understanding the extent to which Islam is not like any other religion they will be convinced that action is necessary. OK that's a long shot.

Well what do you mean you are busy with that one site? :) <smile> the more I visit it around the more I discover its mammoth size and being a beginner I try not to be overwhelmed. You and your team are awesome. Actually I wanted to find out if you were ready to 'share' this endeavour of yours and naturally I never thought only one more person would suffice.

formermuslimsunited: Thanks for the link (maybe I am much more prominent that I thought <ouch> or is it my Israeli IP?), cheers,

Keren 05:13, 5 May 2011 (PDT)

Having a few important articles translated to Indonesian would be nice if you have time. Thanks for the praise! Gabe here does a lot of work nowadays, I just login every now and then, thats pretty much all I've done since a long time. I hope to do some work again on some stuff but I'll see. I'd say Israelis dont need any kind of warning about Islam, they know what it is all about or atleast know enough to stay away from it. For spanish, if the problem is of converts, converts actually arent a big problem since they're so few in number. It doesnt happen often. But again the problem boils down to how much time we all have which is not a lot so its OK. Yea if you feel you have some time and want to do something, sure. We can use all the help we can get. If not, not a problem, I'm glad you like the site and I hope we keep improving the standard and usefulness of the site. --Whale 17:00, 5 May 2011 (PDT)

Jannah

I can't seem to find an article specifically on paradise - there's one for Jahannam but not for Jannah. I know the site's purpose is to criticize Islam but I think a pretty good case can be made against the Islamic heaven (sex slavery, no broadband etc.). I'm not a scholar of Islam so I'm reluctant to start one myself. -Orange124 10:39, 2 June 2011 (PDT)

Yeah, ATM we do have some articles related to heaven (72 virgins etc.) and a lot of primary sources (here) but we have no main/general article discussing everything. I'll add it to our to-do list. Thanks! --Gabe 10:42, 2 June 2011 (PDT)

any interest in project to categorize the koran verses for sql database ??

i've described it at FFI forum post & currently just getting started

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=10270

one approach would be for me to post an article with all the koran verses & initial category assignments (or something i'm new at this wiki stuff) and let people edit the verses to assign categories, then download the article & use as new data for the sql queries

defining the categories & assigning them to the verses is a very open ended task and can be done ranging from simple (a flat category structure & maybe a dozen categories) to complex (a 10 level category tree with 100s of categories)

for me the appeal is having functionality to query the verses based on categories, like - show all verses with categories = violence against unbelievers, show all verses with categories = theology and legal (or however the lack of seperation church/state is represented in the cats)

just having a list of verses & categories is nice but not sure how useful this list is unless can query or show them somehow. example website with verses categorized is the skeptics etc http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/Quran/

thanks

Hi Ecks, thanks for your reply to my message on the FFI forum about that post you linked. The main problem is that there arent many editors on this site, its just me and Gabe right now and we dont have any time to work on this, so you'll have to do everything yourself but we can guide you. On the wiki you can make pages and links and tables and so on. There arent any database functions. 6000 verses means it will be a huge project for one person

I saw the site you linked in your reply [24], the graphs look good.

We can teach how to make Wiki pages and edit here, and answer your questions, but basically you're on your own and you'll have to judge if what you want to do can be wholelly or partially achieved on this site. You can tell us what features you need and we can tell what is possible here and you can see if it will meet your needs. This wiki atmosphere is text based: links between pages, images, tables (sortable) etc. -- Whale 17:27, 26 July 2011 (PDT)

Hi Whale - ok i will just continue as planned & when i get closer to being finished then explore posting more info here at wikiislam. it's clearly possible to do a flat category structure just using html & links into koran verses (thats what the skeptics site does) but i wanted more than that :) which is why i'm planning for sql. automating all that page creation is the way to go, some jscript to read the sql data & emit the html pages, then just upload them etc

Ok sounds good. --Whale 16:25, 27 July 2011 (PDT)

this project fizzled out. i learned alot but not worth the effort to finish, see the post mortem notes at FFI link about. i guess this whole entry can be deleted ? --Ecks why 14:07, 5 September 2011 (PDT)

Thats ok, this will be archived when the we archive all the sections on this page. --Whale 14:44, 5 September 2011 (PDT)

Terrific idea. Should be done sometime. -Haqir

how about a section for educational brochures ?

an easy and cheap way to "do something" about the islam problem is to leave copies of brochures at places. brochures are just 1 page or 1/2 page flyers with info text about islam & a few links for reference. clearly the public needs more education about this horrible ideology and you don't need debating skills or temperament control dealing with hecklers to print & leave copies of brochures

it's easy enough to create your own brochure, there is a ton of info about islam on the internet, just cut/paste into word document or even text file, format it, add a few links, print them out and start distributing :)

here is a good article about this topic at an excellent activism type blog and it has a few sample brochures for download, also see links on right side for more brochures

http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2011/04/educate-public-with-leaflets.html

and of course yours truly did a 1 page pdf flyer that has met with good response on the internet (depending on where i posted it of course LOLOLOL) and is a real eye catcher when i leave it at libraries, sometimes i'll sit nearby and watch a few minutes :) :)

1 page pdf version - do file/download 6kb viewer doesn't show fonts well, has better fonts header footer links, great for emailing printing etc

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_UyNP-72AVKYWNiNTFlYTEtMTA1ZC00YjhiLTljMDUtMDhhNDE0NDMzNmYz

i can poke around and add this section if interested but not worth it if will just get deleted/not approved etc

here is text from flyer: _____

islam is a horrible ideology for human rights

5 key things about islam

1. mythical beliefs - all religions have these (faith) because its part of being a religion: having beliefs without proof until after the believer dies. the problem is people will believe almost anything.

2. totalitarianism - islam has no seperation of church and state: sharia law governs all. there is no free will in islam: only submission to the will of allah as conveniently determined by the imams who spew vapors to feather their own nests. there are no moderate muslims: they all support sharia law.

3. violence - islam leads the pack of all religions in violent tenets for their ideology & history: having eternal canonical imperatives for supremacy at all costs and calling for violence & intimidation as basic tools to achieve these goals.

4. dishonesty - only islam has dishonesty as a fundamental tenet: this stems from allah speaking to mohamhead & abrogation in the koran which is used to explain how mo's peaceful early life was superseded by his warlord role later.

5. misogyny - present day islam is still rooted in 8th century social ethics: treating females as property of men good only for children, severely limiting their activities, dressing them in shower curtains and worse.

conclusions ??

there really are NO redeeming qualities for this muddled pile of propaganda.

islam is just another fascist totalitarian ideology used by power hungry fanatics on yet another quest for worldwide domination and includes all the usual human rights abuses & suppression of freedoms.

We can link brochures on this page: Literature on Islam. --Whale 16:31, 27 July 2011 (PDT)

done :)

Source

About the article Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Corruption of the Qur'an:

I would like to ask about this quoted source,

The scribes of Muhammad were 42 in number. `Abdallah Ibn Sarh al-`Amiri was one of them, and he was the first Quraishite among those who wrote in Mecca before he turned away from Islam. He started saying, "I used to direct Muhammad wherever I willed. He would dictate to me 'Most High, All-Wise', and I would write down 'All-Wise' only. Then he would say, 'Yes it is all the same'. On a certain occasion he said, 'Write such and such', but I wrote 'Write' only, and he said, 'Write whatever you like.'" So when this scribe exposed Muhammad, he wrote in the Qur'an, "And who does greater evil than he who forges against God a lie, or says, 'To me it has been revealed', when naught has been revealed to him." So on the day Muhammad conquered Mecca, he commanded his scribe to be killed. But the scribe fled to `Uthman Ibn `Affan, because `Uthman was his foster brother (his mother suckled `Uthman). `Uthman, therefore, kept him away from Muhammad. After the people calmed down, `Uthman brought the scribe to Muhammad and sought protection for him. Muhammad kept silent for a long time, after which he said yes. When `Uthman had left, Muhammad said "I only kept silent so that you (the people) should kill him."[2] Al-Sira by al-'Iraqi

I read from a pro islamic website that claimed the above quote was fabricated. Can someone please verify this? I use wikiislam most of them time when trying to refute or debunk islamic arguments, and I worry a bit about the authenticity of this.

Btw I'm very new here and I'm not sure how I am supposed to post, so pleaae fix the formatting if you can. I merely dropped by to see if someone can clarify about the said quote. -concerned ex-muslim

You should very well know that they're going to make any and all kinds of excuses they can to reject a hadith which they dont like. You can ignore those arguments. The ref link for that quote says "Is the Qur'an Infallible? by `Abdallah `Abd al-Fadi", so thats the source. --Whale 14:46, 5 September 2011 (PDT)

Btw, i found this link to the said book online, Is the Qur'an Infallible? by `Abdallah `Abd al-Fadi I haven't read it yet, so im not sure if it true. - concerned exmuslim

Yes, you can read that book and let us know if you have any questions. --Whale 16:01, 5 September 2011 (PDT)

I've move this section back to the forum (where it was originally posted) since it is only concerning this one quote. The pro-Muslim site do not link correctly to the article they are responding to. It can be found here, along with further responses from both sides. --Gabe 00:49, 6 September 2011 (PDT)

Mathematics in Qur'an 4:11-12

In response to this. I disagree. Imam Ali ibn Abi Taleb (as) apparently does not know math either.

If the wife's share becomes 1/9:

wife 1/9 = 2/18 daughters 2/3 = 12/18 father 1/6 = 3/18 mother 1/6 = 3/18 total = 20/18

The only way for this to work by only changing what's given to the wife is to give her nothing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CriticalThinker (talk • contribs) on 13:51, 14 December 2010

You are mistaken. In the same way that the wife's share becomes a ninth, so does every other claimants share

decrease by the same proportion, in view of the increased number of shares.

for the wife, this is 3/27 which is 1/9

The mother and the father each have their four shares out of 27, which is 4/27 + 4/27

The daughters shares are 16/27.

16/27 + 4/27 + 4/27 + 3/27 = 27/27.

(everything is decreased by the proportion 24/27 which is 0.88888) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Simpletruth (talk • contribs) on 15:01, 26 December 2010

another user (not the one two posts above this one)

While the process you describe is mathematically sound, but there are a couple of problems with your reasoning. First off, Imam Ali ibn Abi Taleb did not describe the process in your explanation of his response. He merely says that the wife's share is changed to 1/9, and doesn't describe the proportional reduction process that you describe at all, at least how you stated it. So either he forgot about that or you ommitted it from his sermon, which I have no idea why you would do, but let's give the Imam the benefit of the doubt and assume that he did describe this process. There is a bigger issue at hand.

The main issue is that no matter how many hadiths or scholars or imams have corrected the error, the simple fact is that the Quran does not. The moment you try to change the law to fit into reality, you take the Quranic law, the law that is supposed to be divine and perfect, and add a human stipulation to it. You are no longer following the perfect law as it is written. That is why the main article said that the error is unreconcilable: Because the moment you attempt to do so, you destroy all credibility to claim that the Quran is perfect. And if it is not perfect, how can it be the word of God?

This is one of the simplest errors in the Quran: It is there, it is an error, there can be no doubt of the validity of the error, and by changing the meaning of the Quran to correct it, you are implying that the Quran needs to be corrected in the first place. And violating a verse that's only two verses down the line, 4:14:

But those who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment.

Qur'an 4:14

On an unrelated note, why is this issue in the "Response to Contradictions" article? The issue was originally brought up in the Scientific Errors article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by every116 (talk • contribs) on 22:41, 20 September 2011

Muslim contributions

I am an infidel, ;), but I am surprised that the voices on wikiislam seem to be limited to non-believers. Do any Muslims contribute?

Currently we're not accepting Muslim contributions due to lack of time. We have some old articles from them. Also see the FAQ, our site's primary objective is criticism of Islam. --Whale 19:12, 28 October 2011 (PDT)

History of Jihad

WHY was the HISTORY OF JIHAD section removed? (anon IP)

The HOJ series of articles was removed due to multiple reasons, one of them being use of inappropriate language and text that was not suitable for this site (specific quotes can be provided if needed). There were also no inline citations that would confirm the validity of what was being said (this is a core policy for our articles). There is also no known authorship. In other words, we don't know who wrote it. HOJ was imported to this site a long time ago and that time we had little content and no policies. HOJ used to exist on its own site [25] but it looks like its offline right now. Here's one copy ---> http://islam-watch.org/HistoryOfJihad/index.html --Whale 13:19, 24 March 2012 (PDT)